Cope2 Interview
First off let’s start off with a blast from the past. Tell us about how you got into graffiti and what it was like painting the New York City subway system back in the late 1970s and 80s.
It was amazing, a blessing. I thank god everyday for it when I look back at those times, the glory days, I call them. I just wish I had all my photos of everything I painted. It would’ve been dope, but my cousin was a local graffiti writer. His tag was “chico80”. He always had this huge marker called that he called a pilot. It was always in his draw [and] it was black. He would take me on train rides with him; we lived by the last stop of the number 4 train which was Woodlawn road. He would take the train from the last stop to the next stop which was Mosholou Parkway and while the train was moving he would motion tag on the doors, windows, subway maps, and the ceilings of the subway car. I remember the marker just dripping, so juicy, I loved it. It looked so fun while he would be tagging. I would be looking out the window at the other trains rolling by, man I remember seeing dope pieces go bye from writers like, Tracy168, Mark198, Kit17, Comet, Blade, Dr. Pepper, Mitch77, Disco, Med, Deli167, Lie, Die TMP, Fritos, Iz the Wiz, man it was crazy, the colors, the energy, you had to live this to understand it. I knew from there I wanted to be just like these writers and one day I would, so I started to do my homework. My cousin Chico quit, he got into dancing in clubs and stuff. At the same time break dancing was big and I was really into it. I met a black kid named Darryl, he was cool, he also tagged and his tag was “kope!” I was tagging “Bin.” At the time we were both into break dancing and Star Wars, so we would go to Yonkers and steal all the Star Wars figures in Toys R’ Us, Childworld, and Gimbles! We had every figure and starship to go with it, but we grew out of it and got more into painting trains. One day, he told me, “You should tag “Cope” with the “c,” and ill be “Kope” with the k!” That’s how I got the name Cope! I remember this tag, “Ban2”, it was on every car inside, I loved the way he used the number 2 so I just added it to Cope and that’s how I got cope2! I ran into a writer named Rip7 TCT, he taught me a lot on tags and showed me around a lot. I remember seeing Mark 198, the MG boys, and Pnut2. They had pieces in all the schoolyard walls in my neighborhood, these dudes really inspired me. It was Mitch77, man this dude had some dope burners on the number 4 line. I wanted to be like Mitch77, he was like my hero until I met this kid on the train. He wrote “Trap”. He was mad cool; he showed me a lot, like how to rack up paint. He took me to the writers’ bench for the first time back in 1980. I was a kid but I met all the dope writers there like Case2, Bear167, Ban2, Skeme, Dez, Snoman, Smily149, and Gman. You name it I met them, and damn watching the number 2 and 5 trains was amazing. Dondi cars, Lee, Seen, Kel, Shy147, Comet, and Blade, so many dope pieces rolling by I was frozen. Cap had every car smashed battling with Minone Quik RTW, it was crazy! I fell in love with the whole culture, living in the South Bronx break dancing, going to jams in the park, watching the MC’s rime, graffiti writing on trains, man it was a planet by itself, and I thank god for it. Wish I could do it again!
I remember watching the Kings Destroy video you put out some time ago. That was one of the most explicit graffiti videos ever made. Didn’t you catch some problems because of that video?
Did I catch problems? Hell yeah, the New York Police Department Vandal Squad rolled on my ass one night. I was walking my dogs and there were 4 cops undercover. They were like, “ok Cope, sup lets go Mr. videoman”! I was like, ok cool; I knew they would come after me putting out a video like that. So I called my lawyer and it was on. They really wanted me to do time, like a year. I got a year of probation, a couple of thousand dollars in fines, and 20 days of community service. Pretty good but it cost me 10 Gs in lawyer fees just to stay out of prison, but I made it back, so it was worth it. The problem was that I had 2 of my good friends at the time from Germany and New York. The vandal squad said they were killing the trains and they wanted them. If I had given them up they would drop the case. I told my lawyer, “hell no there buggin’, I don’t fold or role like that,” so my lawyer told them, no, that I didn’t know who they were. So I guess the Vandal Squad got pissed off, they did their homework and went and arrested my German friends thinking they were the ones they were looking for and told them that Ovie and I set them up! Now, c’mon that shits the oldest lying trick in the New York Police Department book! For anyone to believe that shit is a fucking idiot and asshole, and shouldn’t even be writing graffiti. But, nooo these two fucking German clowns fell for it and their so called real hardcore crew from the Bronx also believed it! I was in total shock! The word spread like a fucking flu around the world, Cope and Ovie were rats! I wanted to kill everyone! So I said, “ok, if we snitched on you assholes take it to trial and lets see who walks into court to take the stand, c’mon lets see”, they never took anything to trial meanwhile you got their Bronx crew putting a battery up their ass, “yeah, fuck Cope and Ovie their snitches!” Come to think of it now, they all just hated on me so they needed something to take my shine away! It’s like a bully. He beats everyone up and no one can fuck with him. As soon as he gets killed, beat up or arrested they are like, “yeah, that’s good for him!” But meanwhile he’s the man they are tapping on the shoulder and shaking his hand. “Yeah, you the man bro, you my nigga, my dog.” But deep inside they hate you for who you are, what you do, and your fame, your shine and that no one can fuck with your throne your the king of kings! As soon as that happened they all flipped on me and believed the New York Police Department Vandal Squad. But in my heart I knew what was real and one day the truth will come out, and it did. If you read the new vandal squad book by Joseph Rivera he clears my name 10 fucking years later, and I don’t even get an apology. Why? Cause niggas is fake, and can’t except they were wrong and still hate on me. But it’s all good cause I know, and God knew the truth the whole time, and those who turned their back on me, fuck you! To those who kept it real, I love you all! Real niggas do real things. My bloodline’s too pure for that. My kind of breed is really rare, you can’t even find it!
Is part two of the Kings Destroy video still in the works?
Maybe someday, not sure, don’t need the drama. I’m just doing my thing today trying to hit some galleries, do some nice shows and hit the big corporate companies. I got a fam to take care of, gotta bring home the money, no time for bullshit.
Between Time Magazine, Adidas, and Converse, you have been very busy with paid projects. Do you have any other big gigs coming up? You also travel a lot right?
Yeah I’m working on a lot of things. Don’t like to speak on it. People will see as they go along. Otherwise, I’m into doing a lot of canvas work and I’m getting a lot of orders for them. I’m killing it right now, got some good collectors around the world grabbing my shit. I’m working on some good shows and solo shows. I also love doing graffiti events around the world. It’s fun man; all expenses paid you can’t go wrong. Its amazing how back in the early 1980s while bombing subway cars I never knew I would be bombing the world and living from my art and graffiti. What a god gift, I thank him, he makes everything happen! I would have never even imagined this! What a blessing. Thank you god!
Not too long ago you participated at an event in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Tell us a little about that. Didn’t Blen put that on?
Oh yeah my brother Blen, a real brother. He got his fam BNA but he also has his own KD fam I gave him. I’ve known Blen and his brother Bucky since the early 1980s. He’s always given me respect and I honor men like that. That’s realness, you don’t find that anymore on this planet, it’s all gone, everyone just hates, hates, hates! But it was dope, I went with my fam Jee, Ewok KD, Spot YKK, we rocked it. Ran into my nigga Tloks TKO. Real ass mofo right there. I love that dude and his fam! Real dudes, we had a great time coolin’ with Bad6, crazy mofo, real dude. Saw my KD queen Zori4. It was good to see her and paint with her she’s dope. Niggas from other whack crews be trying to take her from KD and put her down with their whack ass crew like other faggots did in PR. They got down with KD in the beginning then started sucking other crews. I just don’t understand the fakeness in niggas who claim to be real. No loyalty, they’d rather rep a crew who reps with real rats and snitches in their crew. Niggas know the deal, say no more! Its all good, KD lives no matter what. I’m the realest mofo in this whole graff game, that’s why niggas hate on me!
Your book you put out about 5 years ago has an extremely large amount of photos in it, that project must have been a behemoth and a lot of work to finish. How did you gather all those?
Just taking photos throughout the years, you know until one day my friends from Paris, Myre and Orus (RIP), offered me the book deal. They loved how I did so many walls with so many different writers from all over. There is not too many writers in New York that do that cause they be hatin’ or have egos. I got love for anyone as long as you got love for me. We can paint and get it on; real niggas know how I get down. So I said that I was with it. It’s crazy because first they wanted me to just focus on my pieces. I could’ve left a lot of writers out but I kept it real, I wasn’t selfish and put all my niggas in. While I was doing the book I got the black and white dummy copies and I showed a lot of my boys. Everybody was supporting me, they was happy I put their stuff in. As soon as the book dropped and they saw all the hype and shine and exposure, I got the same dudes who patted me on my back and said, “yeah Cope, we love you, we got your back”, start to hate on me like never before. It was so shocking the shit niggas was saying about me, like How I’m making money from everyone, and now I think I’m all that, I’m selfish, and I’m all about Cope2! Not everyone hated, but mostly everyone. It’s so crazy, I should’ve just focused on my pieces, but then niggas still would’ve bitched. You just don’t win and can’t ever make niggas happy so you know what? I learned from the video and book, fuck everyone! Just do you like 2pac said, niggas will hate you for whatever you do, so just do you! That’s how I live, fuck that! But otherwise it was a good book, sold 5000 copies worldwide. Sold out, we’re trying to reprint soon so let’s see what happens. Thanks to Myre and Orus, Godbless your soul my brother, rest in paradise. You know what Orus told me before he passed in Paris when he gave me the first copy? “Now I can die knowing I did what I always wanted to do, the Cope2 book!” That shit was real and til’ this day it makes me cry, I love you Orus, thanks! Orus had a long battle with cancer!
It’s widely published that you got paid 20 grand for that Time billboard you did, did that create any controversy for you?
Oh yeah, that was a great payday. It was crazy; I just opened my email up and got the project. So I called them up and they told me they just wanted me to do what I do on a huge vinyl poster for 20 Gs. I was like, “what? You’re kidding me!” I thought it was a joke, but they was serious. I got some of my boys to hit it also cause I didn’t want to take all the shine, and I thought it would look more real with other names on it. So I called up Jee, JA, TKid, Muse, Been, Jez, Skuf, Naisha, Ovie, Nic AK and Meres. Thanks to Meres for helping with the project. We had to hang this on the side of 5point, get a cherry lift and bust it out. It was really fun but more amazing when they hung it on Houston and Wooster Street on the side of a building for 3 months. I had every news channel and newspaper calling me to do interviews, it was crazy but it made history. It was like when Tyson knocked out Trevor Berbick and became the youngest heavyweight ever in history. That was fun; I’d love to do it again!
Ovie is about to come out with a book or a movie or something right?
Not sure, he ran into some drama with the New York Police Department vandal squad cause he never listens and does shit correctly. He just did 8 months up north for graffiti. He’s just laying low trying to do things legal now cause if he fucks up he’s looking at 4 years flat up north, so you know he’s coolin’ out. That’s my dog, for years, we’ve had our problems but everything’s good now. Shit happens, no love lost, just been really busy trying to build my empire so I can leave something behind to my kids and grandkids that’s all. It’s like the Lotto you gotta be in it to win it!!
Peter Vallone Jr., a local councilman is quoted as calling you a "punk" and being vital in shutting down the Ecko event, did he ever issue an apology after the case was over turned in the federal courts?
Yeah he’s a cool dude. What happened was, when I left him that message and cursed him out, he got his boys after me, and they had four New York police department detectives looking to arrest me. They said I threatened him but I never did, I just cursed him out cause I was pissed he called me a punk on national TV, over the Time Magazine project. Then he gets the Ecko event shut down when I was going to make a couple of Gs for just one day to paint a fake train. C’mon, you’re fucking with my family now. I got to pay bills and feed my fam, you know? So I flipped out. I called my lawyer and told him what happened he said, “Oh my god, Cope you gotta relax, you cant curse out that dude he’s really powerful in queens, he’s gonna come down on you hard unless you got 10 grand to spend on bail and my fees. You better call him up and apologize.” I said, “Hell no, fuck him!” He said, “trust me Cope, he knows all the judges in queens your gonna have problems.” I said, “Ok, fuck it.” So I called Peter Vallones’ office, he wasn’t there so I left a really good message apologizing. Oh man, it worked and he called me back and we spoke about everything. I told him he dissed me first calling me a punk because Time hired me to do the 20 G project then the Ecko thing. He understood me and apologized and so did I. He called off his pigs and I was good, I just had to go down to his local precinct to sign some paperwork stating we spoke and he’s dropping the charges. That was it. It was funny, when I walked in there were four huge white cops there. They said, “man, we was looking for you I guess your peters buddy now?” I said hell yeah he’s my best freind! [laughs] It felt good not having them cuffs slapped on you walking in and out the precinct. They even got me pizza and a diet Pepsi. They said peter told us to make sure we feed you. I said, “holy shit, this nigga got power I ain’t fuckin’ with this dude I’m on his side!” [laughs] It was a fun great experience.
When I was younger I thought no one would ever make real money off skateboarding, now you can see many millionaire skaters doing it big. Do you ever seeing the same type of thing happening to graffiti writers? Graffiti writers with reality TV shows, sponsorships from big companies and shit like that?
Man I hope so, that’s why I’m still doing my thing, staying active, keeping my name out there in everyway. I can. I know someone’s watching. They gotta do something big on this graffiti art form, kids and people love it everywhere. It’s color, it’s art, its pure energy. It’s real in some artists, not all! It’s my life; I know God has something good planned for me. It’s my path in life, my dream. It’s what I do I am graffiti! I rep it to the fullest, but yeah, I hope someone out there does something good with it. I’m sure they will. They need to embrace the art form more, there’s none other like it and I’m proud to be a part of it!
You went to MAGIC in Las Vegas right? How was that and are you preparing to launch a clothing brand?
Yeah that was cool. I went to represent for a clothing line I did a collaboration with called DonDanteClothing.com. Some official shit, you gotta check out the site and clothes on there, there is really dope stuff. Yeah MAGIC was dope, met a lot of UFC fighters, and made some good connections. Me and my partner Indie has her own line called KweenzDestroy.com, check it out for the real ladies. MAGIC was a great experience. I loved it, hope to go again. It was good to just get away, like a little vacation, always good for the soul.
What are your future plans for your crew, KD?
Not sure, just keep on doing our thing. I ain’t putting nobody down anymore cause you put niggas down when they ask and you think their gonna stay real and rep it to the fullest. Next thing you know they stop reppin’ KD and start sucking some other crews dick. It’s so crazy I just don’t understand it. Niggas think cause they get a little fame or style their heads blow up, get egos and think they’re too good to rep KD! Nigga, fuck yous, all ya can go fuck your self and eat a dick you faggots! Ya all know who I’m talking to, got a problem? See me when you see me nigga! Otherwise a crew doesn’t define who I am as a man or graffiti writer. Cope2 speaks for itself, so its all good, but those who keep it real out there I love ya niggas, my brothers, Blen who has KD fam in Puerto Rico, Denz who has his KD fam in Chicago, Reps who has his KD fam in Denver. These are real brothers right there I honor them niggas till death! And all over the globe, my brother Zor from Italy, Scope from Singapore, Scein, Klor, Tilt, Slog, Fok from Berlin, Cren, Tuna, LA, Arka, Sker, Wys. Man we got real good people reppin’ its like the mob, real familia worldwide, and we’re gonna keep on rocking Kings Destroy, Killa Dogs, Keepin Dollars, Knowledge Dominates for life baby!
Tell us about Graffiti Over Dose Volume 1!
It’s just straight up graffiti over dose graffiti art from all around the world. Quality, not these bullshit graff videos you see today. Writers bomb only to get up in a video then you never hear from them again. I hate that shit, fake writers! And just to give the world something new to look at, keep it alive, you know nothing crazy, just some good graffiti writing from all over the world, that’s all. Hope people will like it, I’m sure they will. Your still gonna get your haters especially the ones who didn’t come out in it, you can’t put everyone in, it’s impossible!
Any last words for our readers?
Not really, I’m going to just keep doing my thing, moving forward, leaving all the haters in the dust. Give em’ more stuff to hate on. I love it, “Cope2 king of kings, legends of legends, world class graffiti legend baby,” The name speaks for itself, no ego just reality. Much love goes out to all my KD fam worldwide to all the fams I rep for OTB, TNB, BTC, TFP, FC, TC5, MPC, XTC, and my fam Gods Of Destruction. My partner, my woman I love you baby you the best. Indie184, my babies, my brothers, my pops, my whole fam. I loves yous all. Everyone who keeps real with me much love and respect! Ayds, thanks for being real. And my moms, I love you and miss you. You are my heart, rest in paradise my goddess. Lil’ Cris I love you cuz, god bless your soul! Cope2, the saga continues!
